What is allowed?

    A poster on another thread showed a letter with Michel # 662 and 663 to which he added : ( Die Darstellung Nationalsozialistischer Symbole meinerseits sind ausschlieslich zu kulturhistorischen Zwecken anzusehen und dürfen nicht zu Propagandazwecken mißbraucht werden!!)

    Is this mandatory in Germany when showing NS symbols? I have noticed on some other sites where the sellers of NS era postcards obliterated every swastika with white or red circles. One card must have had a lot of these evil things since there where so many white (or was it red?) blobs it was hard to tell what the card was all about.

    I hope this question is allowed by the moderator since I'm starting to wonder what is acceptable here.
    Please moderator this is not a criticism of you. It is your site.

    Dear lithograving,

    as mentioned in the German text, it is not allowed to use symbols like the swastika for any propaganda purposes at all, therefore we often make use of the phrase as mentioned!

    It is ok to show such symbols if you just show them to illustrate their historic background within your cultural-historical collection.

    But, to be honest, if you do so, you are often, not to say in most cases "on the borderline"!

    Collect what you like, enjoy it by yourself, show it here just asking questions to understand what it is, but try to get rid of any personal and/or political commentary.

    Best Regards

    mx5schmidt

    hello litho,

    please don't start wonderin, but get invited to survey german handling of cultural collection. And you will see certainley: nothing is impossible and nothing is uncomplicated!

    Hope you are amused about the forum und enjoy the discussions.

    And final: trouble about IQ is ridicule nursery, I mean.

    Best wishes

    happybaba

    called sometimes happyblabla, you know?

    This has nothing to do with the attitude of the moderators of this board.

    There are laws in Germany and Austria prohibiting the display of Nazi-symbols.
    Nobody exactly knows what may be Ok and what is not allowed to show, since every single case has to be subject of a court decission (German law does not know judical precedent, every case gets a new decission, maybe with contrary outcome as past similar cases, depending on the judges).
    In most cases to display of pre 1945 original items SHOULD be no problem.
    Post 1945 items (incl. forgeries of originals!!!) are forbidden at all.

    ebay on the other hand is even by far more restricitve in this, than the laws are asking for.

    Ich mag verdammen, was du sagst, aber ich werde mein Leben dafür einsetzen, dass du es sagen darfst.

    Voltaire

    It was far easier to deal with Germany's Third Reich back in the 60's and 70's. There was an acceptance of "It happened" and to this the Germans were by and large resigned.

    In my opinion one of the great changes towards what was very much a relatively sensible atitude was changed when the statute of limitations was altered not to include crimes committed during the Third Reich, at roughly the same time a law was passed preventing the swastika and other Nazi symbols from being displayed, as such both of these actions where taken to appease those who had suffered under this regime and to deflect foreign criticism about the perceived lassaiz faire attitude towards their past.

    An unfortunate aside to this is the widely held foreign belief that Germany should remain ever penitent for what happened, and this attitude today has penetrated the German education system.

    Similarly in England in 2007 it was expected of every white educationalist to apologise and make atonement for the actions of the slavers.

    Any decent social anthropologist knows that you cannot retrospectively apply todays laws and attitudes to events of the past. Unfortunately revisionists would have it otherwise.

    There are laws to which one adheres, the minefield is in pre-guessing the attitudes and opinions of others.

    kind regards

    Nigel

    A book which I would recommend albeit it looks solely at one aspect is Philatelie im Dritten Reich, Meyer
    It does however singularly show how the past can be objectively dealt with in a sensible way without treading on peoples toes or heightened sensibilities

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    What I cannot understand in the Ebay-philosophy:

    Selling stamps and coins with Nazy-symbols is allowed, but the same symbols on old postcards from the III. Reich is strictly prohibited!

    Otherwise, in the U.S.A.-Ebay you can sell all articles with these symbols, but as German buyer it is not possible to buy these articles.

    I have never understood these Ebay-politic!

    Best regards,

    kartenhai

    kartenhai

    I think it is because people were forced to use these stamps and coins, as there was no alternative and these have been the official payment methods.

    But no one was forced to use these postcards - they could have chosen other cards with "nicer" motives.

    LG
    Michael

    Well all I can say is "Poor Germany" you have a heavy cross to bear. In a free society the government has no right to dictate to the people what to think, what a person is allowed to speak,what political leanings one may have, etc,etc. It appears to me that the new post reunification Germany has inherited some of the traits of the DDR, strange eh?
    Apparently since Austria has very similar laws, I am glad now that my parents emigrated from there in 1956, I neither want nor could live under those rules.
    Thank God Canada doesn't have these ridiculous laws yet even though certain things are better left unsaid in public unless you want to loose your job or reputation.

    Well, yes it is somewhat embarassing to know that your government is thinking, that original markings on a german ww2 aircraft model-kit are promoting fascism...
    But german politicians have proved their stupidity very often in the past.

    Ich mag verdammen, was du sagst, aber ich werde mein Leben dafür einsetzen, dass du es sagen darfst.

    Voltaire

    Funny you should mention model airplanes. One of the models I remember from the late fifties was I believe a Messerschmitt Bf109 and of course it came with the swastika decals and as a matter of fact the models were made in Germany.
    I remember we received so many German exports here then and boy the stuff was good quality and cheap, especially since $1 Can was worth 4 DM.

    One more thing; it isn't just German politicians who are stupid as you say. We have plenty of stupid, useless, good for nothing politicians here in Canada too and they are getting worse which leaves me with only one choice...I probably won't vote in the next general election because they make me sick.

    Many British politicians were recently sent a copy of George Orwells "1984" inscribed "It's a story not a blueprint".

    mfG

    Nigel

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    is this allowed by the tread what ist allowed?

    Hope so

    two of my best friends are americans from Phoenix, US, God own coutnty

    Happy