Brief von Warschau nach Frankreich

    It's a declared value letter, sent from Warszawa to

    Monsieur le Baron D'Autencourt
    Mareshal de camp de l'armee francaise affiches
    de la legion d'honeur, Chevalier de la croise
    Militaire de Pologne...

    It bears the Warszawa 30 october and the Strzalkowo 1 november linear postmarks plus the other additional postmarks CHARGE for the declared value, TP/PP for the pre paid letter and the transit postmark entering in France. Why PAYS BAS (PAR GIVET) instead of PRUSSE?

    But the most interesting part of this letter is on the back...

    The letter arrived the 13 november 1820 (pittoresque arrival postmark). The sender of this letter applied just the central seal, while for charged letters it was required that all the opened sides was closed (usually with 5 seals). So, the post office clerk added the missing four and on the side seals you can see the shape of the STARAWIES postmark.

    Polish wax seals are not so common, and Starawies in particular is not listed in the books i have, even if the shape matches with the ones of the other post offices. Must be rare...

    Could i just understand something more...

    The lac is not so readable...
    In the middle you can see the shape of the Real Krone
    Below, the STARAWIES word, and the post horn symbol.
    Along the side, the words "KON.PP.POST.WART.AMT"

    Front:
    [Blockierte Grafik: http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5963/b29frontepd3.th.jpg]

    Back:
    [Blockierte Grafik: http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1430/b29retrouu0.th.jpg]

    Wax seal:
    [Blockierte Grafik: http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3448/b29laccaas6.th.jpg]

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von ameis33 (28. Februar 2008 um 12:28)

    But the most interesting part of this letter is on the back side...

    A small point on the English, it is always -on the back, or, on the reverse, never what you have written. Envelopes and cover do not have an arse!!

    A very interesting cover you have shown here. Thank you.

    regards

    Nigel

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    The French transcribes as follows;

    Marechal de Camp d l'armee francaise, officier de la legion d'honneur, et chevalier de la croix militaire de la ligne.

    In English this means he is a Brigadier (D. Brigadegeneral) and has been decorated with; the Legion d'Honneur, and with a Military Cross of the line (this second will have been awarded for an action he partook in).

    Whilst this has certainly been treated as a Valuer Declare cover, no value is stated on the front as the regulations and agreements of this period required. And following on from this at point 3. and 4. on the reverse, one can clearly read Certificat Lycia (School certificate- Schulabschluß/Abitur) and point 4. ditto.

    regards

    Nigel

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von doktorstamp (28. Februar 2008 um 01:18)

    Corrected...
    I realized just now i was mentioning what we call sometimes the "B" side...

    The most peculiar aspect i think are the wax seals. Seals were used instead of postmarks somewhere in the kingdom of Poland, but mostly at the beginning of 1800... I don't remember exactly up to when, but if i don't mistake we can say around 1815... Is this a late use? The shape is similar to others i have in my books, but the side inscriptions are different and perhaps make explicit reference to the handling of value letters, as WART. could stay for "Wartosc", value in polish...

    I was wondering also if the "PAYS BAS" instead of "PRUSSE" transit postmark could be applied for error of for some special reason. Mail from Russia/Poland passing throught Prusse directed to France should refer to the 1817 postal convention between Prusse and France, and should be considered and marked as coming from Prussia. In effect i have the sister of this letter, not charged but in the same period with the same route, and this has the "PRUSSE PAR GIVET" postmark, like many others belonging to the same convention. But i don't think that's a big issue, just curiosity.

    Pays Bas par Givet

    Pays Bas is the name given in French to the Netherlands. Givet is a town in the Ardennes department of France situated today close to the Belgian border.

    Thus this mark demonstrates part of the route taken by this letter.

    Would it be possible for you to reload the scans after having altered the colours slightly to emphasise the script. I should then be able to make ascertain more of the writing. Currently I can only go so far and it doesnt make sense with what I can read. Particularly with reference to the writing at the botto of the envelope where the sentence clearly mentions Berlin, Paris and the King (le Roi).

    regards

    Nigel

    An die nicht Englisch sprechenden. nach dem wir alles ausgetuftelt und gerätselt haben, erscheint dann eine erläuterung in Deutsch.

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    Here me back
    I've added a more enhanced and higher resolution picture
    I think the right title is Chevalier de la croise Militaire de Pologne. If you look the P of Paris in the bottom-right part of the letter, you'll see that the shape of P matches with the P of Pologne.
    On the bottom part, we can also read some routing information (Varsovie and Berlin) and the final address, Paris Rue du Roule (?), chez le Pepinieriste (gardener?) du Rois

    On the reverse, i can read

    Papiery w tym Pakuice (?) zapieczentowane (papers sealed in this package)
    1. Akcja na 900 frankow z Dotacya ... (Akcja i think it's a kind of check, check of 900 francs in dotation ...)
    2. Plenipotencja na Barona D'Autencourt (delegation to the Baron D'Autencort)
    3. Certificat Zycia (Life certificate)
    4. Liot (?)

    It's written in old polish, or perhaps not by a pole...

    This should answer to the question about the value declaration. The 4° point could it be not a point but the weight (i.e. 4 loths?) I can't find this word in my dictionaries.

    A word more about the PAYS BAS PAR GIVET. This is a transit postmark applied when the letter entered in France. Before 1800 circa, letter entering France were just marked with general postmarks, like "D'ALLEMAGNE", etc. without an express indication of the location where they came from. More detailed postmarks were introduced in the end of 1700 mostly for administratives purposes, for instance to know who to claim fees for unpaid letters, etc. Normally, letters entering from Prussia were marked with "PRUSSE PAR GIVET/FORBACH" rectangular postmark. Even letter coming from Russia got the same postmark. That's why of my thought.

    Loth = ounce. Generally a Loth depending on which State it was weighed in, lies somewhere between 15,5 and 16,8 grammes. Roughly it can always be taken to be ½ ounce imperial.

    I agree with the de Pologne, which in the original scan could not be clearly read.

    It is clear that the word before Narivve? is obscured by ink

    Pepinieriste in English is Nurseryman or Nurserywoman. However this presents us with a problem, because a Nurseryman in English is effectively a gardner, whereas a Nurserywoman can be this or a nanny.

    That it is expressed as le Pepinieriste , and thus clearly masculine points towards being a gardner.

    chez le Pepinieriste du Roi, a Paris = the place of the King's gardner/ male children's nanny, in Paris. My knowledge of French syntax is too miserable to permit a better definition.

    I take it though to be the sender, and in hindsight that the letter contained school certificates, this would indicate the latter. I cannot imagine a gardner having anything to do with the schooling of the King's children.

    regards

    Nigel

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von doktorstamp (29. Februar 2008 um 09:43)

    Akcya= shares, bonds, but my preferred translation would be Letter of credit. I read the sum as 500 Franken.

    Baron D'Autencourt is a plenipotentiary, thus he is a diplomatic envoy with permission to act independently.

    Certificat Lycia not Zycia. and most certainly school certificate

    Liot?????

    The letter was weighed initially and recorded as 3, 1/3 Loth (around 50 grammes). It will have been weighed a second time and here it is shown to now weigh 3, 2/3 Loth (around 55 grammes) no doubt because of the extra wax seals being attached.

    regards

    Nigel

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    I was wondering why such a letter could be sent from a small town like starawies... Than i've found this:


    On the front, the word "Narivve" i think it's in reality "Varsovie", Warszawa in french. Varsovie and Berlin behind are the routing information. The word on the left, covered by the ink but not voluntery deleted, i think it could be "per" or "via", or something like...

    At the moment i can't add more... Thank you for your help Nigel...

  • Wolffi 27. Dezember 2021 um 11:18

    Hat den Titel des Themas von „Must be rare...“ zu „Brief von Warschau nach Frankreich“ geändert.