Dänische Post in Hamburg

    Hello @all
    This gem from 1863 is a letter from Hamburg to Abo/Turku, Finland.
    What is a mystery to me is that the sender seems to be in Hamburg (sender's address in Hamburg and considered to be Hamburg by the recipient) but there is a stamp "Aus Dänemark". And what seems to be the first cancellation says "Holster P.8??", which is Denmark for sure.
    I can think of two explanations: 1. the sender had an office in Denmark as well; 2. the letter has been posted on a train between Holster and Hamburg? This latter explanation would please me indeed.
    I should greatly appreciate any suggestions
    Pixie
    (formerly M**i - I was told that the other nick sounded a bit nasty i german :) )



    These various marks on the EL document the transit of the EL.

    Yes the sender does live in Hamburg (address written inside and merchant mark on the reverse). At this point in time Denmark had an office in Hamburg. You must also remember that at this moment Hamburg was an independent state, and not just a city in Germany.

    The Transit mark in cyrillic documents the arrival in Finland, and also shows the difference between the then two calendar systems operating then, namely Gregorian and Julian, with the Gregorian being some 12 days behind the Julian.

    Trust this is of some help

    regards

    Nigel

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    A hearty welcome to you.

    There are quite a few on this site who speak english who will be able to help you with your future queries.

    Once again

    Regards

    Nigel

    Sammeln wie es einem Spaß macht

    Pixie:

    If you have a look at the exact time at the date stamps, you will find the following order:

    1. Posted at the Danish P.O. in Altona 25.12. 10-11h
    2. Arrived at the Danish P.O. in Hamburg 25.12. 11-12h
    3. Transferred to the Prussian P.O. in Hamburg 25.12. 12-1h (where it received the "Aus Dänemark"-handstamp)
    4. Prussian P.O. put the letter on a train through Denmark (Holsten cancel)

    At least that´s what I make from the cancellations, wish you had a scanner though :D

    All the best,

    Lars

    Thank you Nigel,
    Yes, Hamburg seems to have been quite an interesting place in many respects.
    At that time there was also a swedish office, very important in the swedish postal history.
    The various officies and the roads to and from Hamburg must be a very interesting area of research, and Hamburg as a Zoll Verein at that time ...
    Post to and from Finland passed Sweden and frequently enough Hamburg. These years seem to have been a "transition period" when more and more international mail was led through St Petersburg, and this has begun to fascinate me.

    Still, the Holster cancellation is a bit of a mystery ...

    Regards
    Pia
    with a nick after our darling cairn terrier Pixie from my childhood
    :)

    Hello Lars!
    :)
    Thank you for your suggestions!
    I agree on points 1-3
    but the Holsted cancellation? (sorry, my mistake, I think it is -sted)
    As it can be found in the upper right corner one might think that this was the first cancellation (even though cancellations were placed in the upper left early on).
    And furthermore, the russian cancellations would suggest a route eastwards and not through Denmark - Sweden??

    Pia

    PS
    the danish cancellation is as blurry irl, unfortunately

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Pixie (30. September 2007 um 15:46)

    Hi Pia,

    As you have the cover in front of you, the "Holsted" cancellation should show a daytime earlier than the Altona cancel. Is that possible to identify? And I guess you are right, the cover should have travelled by train or steamer to Russia, Denmark would not make too much sense.

    All the best,

    Lars

    To add from my point of view:

    Altona was the danish Border town to the German states, so the Altona postmark was applied for leaving Denmark. It is still more than a year in the future, that Altona was handed over to Austria.

    Train or boat? It would not make much sense to ship a letter with an baltic sea destination to a north-sea port, so I would opt for train.

    Russian cancel is a SPB transitmark, one of the first that included a AM/PM information.

    Ich mag verdammen, was du sagst, aber ich werde mein Leben dafür einsetzen, dass du es sagen darfst.

    Voltaire

    Thank you Lacplesis
    this letter needed 10 days to reach its destination. It was mid winter and sea transport was usually avoided during the winter months, so that is another good reason to believe that it was forwarded on some land route.

    Lars:
    I have tried all our magnifiers with little success - date and hour will remain a mystery.
    I do so hope that somebody will recognize the stamp as such. I will consult family and friends to see what they make out of the text and return after voting and verdict
    :)

    Thank you all for looking in!

    best
    Pixie

  • Wolffi 27. Dezember 2021 um 11:39

    Hat den Titel des Themas von „mystery?“ zu „Dänische Post in Hamburg“ geändert.